Lexus IS: Third Generation

Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan to get Twin-Turbo V6 F SPORT?

Lexus GS F Next-Generation

The Australian website Driving Enthusiast is claiming the next-generation Lexus IS sedan will be available with the 3.5L twin-turbo V6 engine from the LS flagship:

The rumoured 2020 Lexus IS 400 isn’t set to be a full-cream performance model by F division, but more of a sub-performance version by its F Sport sector. It’s believed it will feature a range of performance-inspired features, such as large wheels hiding big brakes, sports suspension, and the usual F Sport treatment for the interior.

As for that engine. Lexus introduced its first turbocharged petrol engine, codenamed ‘V35A-FTS’, with the LS 500. The 3.5-litre twin-turbo unit essentially comes in to replace the naturally aspirated 3.5-litre V6.

Let’s just be upfront — this news is coming from an unsubstantiated source, there’s nothing to back up these facts. However, the V35A-FTS twin-turbo V6 makes perfect sense in the next-generation IS sedan.

That said, 416 horsepower seems excessive in the standard model, and Lexus has yet offer serious performance upgrades with their F SPORT models. If the rumor is correct and the TTV6 is not meant for the next-generation IS F, then what powers that car?

(We could stack rumors on top of each other, and suggest a detuned version of the much-hyped twin-turbo 600-horsepower V8 for the IS F. Also, the image above was a rendering of the next-gen GS F and unrelated to the IS at all.)

Comments
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
Ian Schmidt
Model 3 is by all accounts a giant lemon, so there's definitely a window for someone to make a more compelling EV in that segment. I just don't know who it's gonna be.
It really is interesting that no big luxury brand has jumped in. There is obviously a market here.
mikeavelli
It really is interesting that no big luxury brand has jumped in. There is obviously a market here.
Their focus is on electric crossovers. Tesla shot itself in the foot by making the Model 3 first not Model Y (although they couldn't predict the SUV boom when the Model 3 was formulated). Others are playing smart by filling the hole before Model Y arrives.
A
The next IS will debute with the 2,5 inline 4 with the multistage gearbox. The 2,0 turbo and the 3,5v6 from the camry. End of story... There will be no twin turbo stuff in a volume model.
arrow1982
The next IS will debute with the 2,5 inline 4 with the multistage gearbox. The 2,0 turbo and the 3,5v6 from the camry. End of story... There will be no twin turbo stuff in a volume model.
Sources?
mikeavelli
It really is interesting that no big luxury brand has jumped in. There is obviously a market here.
Reason is simple - Tesla loses money on them... and big boys dont need to lose money on vehicles they sell... hence they are jumping into higher end models first, which is also bad for Tesla as thats where profits are.
corradoMR2
Wishful thinking the 4IS will be out as a 2020 MY and fitted with a flagship powertrain unless this is an "F" model. If anything, for a non-F version, the 3.5TT will have to be detuned to ~350hp which will be in line to compete with the 440i and S5. Needless to say, I do hope for a 4IS release in 2020 with a better quality interior, more competitive tech and powertrains, which will get me back into one.
I bet it will be out in 2021 MY with 416hp engine in one of the variations (not base). Dont we already have dates when job 1 starts for next IS from Carmaker1?
spwolf
Reason is simple - Tesla loses money on them... and big boys dont need to lose money on vehicles they sell... hence they are jumping into higher end models first, which is also bad for Tesla as thats where profits are.
They would invest now with projections of profits in the future.
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arrow1982
The next IS will debute with the 2,5 inline 4 with the multistage gearbox. The 2,0 turbo and the 3,5v6 from the camry. End of story... There will be no twin turbo stuff in a volume model.
I'll agree with the last bit. TTV6 is unlikely only on the IS line. I do believe the 2GR will remain, either that or: an IS350h to replace the IS350.

spwolf
I bet it will be out in 2021 MY with 416hp engine in one of the variations (not base). Dont we already have dates when job 1 starts for next IS from Carmaker1?
Yeah. Job #1 starts in July 2020 - I believe.

Secondly - I would bet against that. We are talking about Toyota here. A known conservative company. Everyone was excited about the 3G Lexus IS back in 2012/2013 too. Everyone was assuming Turbo charge and more power. What did we get in 2014/2015? Nothing. No changes. Then in 2016 and 2018 - engine changes. But slightly.

From someone that plays Toyota stock and invest highly in their company. Its highly likely, based off Toyota's build patterns, the AR Turbo and 2GR V6 will stay on the 4G Lexus until at least refresh - earliest they change engines there. Toyota loves to milk the engine/platform until they get the most profit from it. This is why they are one of the richest car companies.

My prediction is the TTV6 will not be dropped into the Lexus IS line. Maybe in the distance future - but not now. Few reasons why I think this:
1) Lexus IS is the brand's entry level product. Majority of their sales come from the base engine trim. A TTV6 would just not pull enough sales to justify it.
2) A TTV6 trickle drop from the LS to IS within a few years is too fast of a "trickle down". Toyota would likely want to shove the TTV6 into another model first.
3) A Lexus IS Non F model with TTV6 will only please enthusiasts - and generate questionable sales as enthusiasts make a small population of the consumer base with not all of them willing to buy a TTV6 Lexus.
4) With stronger emission laws coming from China and Europe, its possible Toyota brings the Lexus IS300h into US market and make it a IS350h to replace the IS350. A Hybrid Lexus IS will sell really well.
5) And this is my biggest reason - SUV crazed market. With an intensive SUV crazed market, it makes no sense to put a TTV6 into a Lexus IS. Sedan sales already low - especially luxury sedans. I believe the next vehicle to get the TTV6 will be the Lexus RX. It'll help the Lexus RX be a better and bigger power-house in the SUV market.

Last note: The 3G Lexus IS in 2014/2015 sold nearly as much units as the 2G Lexus IS in 2006/2007. Toyota knows the Lexus IS will sell regardless of engine changes.
Next IS 350 could get a V35A-FKS, a naturally aspirated version, not the V35A-FTS?
Why would they bother with a V35A-FKS when they will have a turbo motor capable of taking its role?

The 200-250kW class engine is a workhorse, so it will not only be used by sports models like the IS, but one of the main purposes will be for light trucks and SUVs. The V35A-FKS is almost guaranteed to be less powerful and torquey as a utility vehicle engine than either the 1GR or 2GR. The hypothetical A24/25A-FTS will be more capable in every way imaginable. If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
mikeavelli
They would invest now with projections of profits in the future.
they will invest now and build it in 2021... who wont buy Tesla 3 sized EV from BMW/MB/Audi/Lexus in 2021/2022, because Tesla was there sooner?

They dont have problem with Tesla losing billions before them, batteries are usually supplied by 3rd party anyway.
S
ssun30
Why would they bother with a V35A-FKS when they will have a turbo motor capable of taking its role?

The 200-250kW class engine is a workhorse, so it will not only be used by sports models like the IS, but one of the main purposes will be for light trucks and SUVs. The V35A-FKS is almost guaranteed to be less powerful and torquey as a utility vehicle engine than either the 1GR or 2GR. The hypothetical A24/25A-FTS will be more capable in every way imaginable. If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
This is very true. The 2GR-FKS will likely stay instead of developing a N/A version of the TTV6 engine. Especially since its also already proven in reliability as well on top of saving money.
Levi
Next IS 350 could get a V35A-FKS, a naturally aspirated version, not the V35A-FTS?
ssun30
Why would they bother with a V35A-FKS when they will have a turbo motor capable of taking its role?

...The hypothetical A24/25A-FTS will be more capable in every way imaginable...
Sakura
This is very true. The 2GR-FKS will likely stay instead of developing a N/A version of the TTV6 engine.
The IS, perhaps more than any other Lexus line, has seen a wide array of regional, market-dependent powerplant offerings, and I suspect this will continue for the 4th generation. IS 350 has been pretty much a North America thing, with some also sold in Australia, New Zealand, Japan and possibly a handful of other markets. The IS 200d/220d diesels were a European thing. The 1st-gen IS 200s (be they 4 or 6 cylinders) never made it to North America, and neither has the IS 300h.

I think it's only a matter of time before a V35A-FKS naturally aspirated Dynamic Force engine replaces the current 2GR-FKS. With many of the so-called Dynamic Force tricks (dual Otto/Atkinson cycle, VVT-iW and so forth) already applied to the aging 2GR, it's hard to imagine how much better a V35A replacement could be. But you never know. No specs have been revealed. Don't underestimate Toyota engineers.

Yet, the Chinese market LS 350 would've been a natural to unveil the V35A-FKS. Instead, it soldiers on with the older 2GR-FKS. Given that the 2nd-gen IS pioneered the dual direct + port injection 2GR-FSE in the IS 350, might its 4th-gen successor be the first to use a naturally aspirated V35A-FKS in North America, Japan and Oceania?

I agree with ssun30 that a turbocharged A24/25A-FTS would be better suited for China's engine displacement-based laws than the V35A. and I imagine that Europe's primary powertrain lineup will continue to be hybrid, most likely the latest Toyota Crown's choice of A25A-FXS and 8GR-FXS.
Please watch on You Tube Top Gear testing the Tesla 3, it is an impressive car and is scarily fast, simple and clean.
I think we are at the start of a revolution here, and these suggestions of various power plants in different models will be history because the Tesla shows just how much torque and speed it is capable of and no one will need more, and their autonomous driving system looks impressive as well. In this same You Tube Tesla clip the Tesla tested for speed round a track against an established high end sports car and yes the Tesla is faster and wins.
I want one!
However would like Lexus to manufacture it, as I believe Tesla has had assembly problems and various teething issues after all they are now building at the rate of 7000 (up from 5000) cars a week from start up. I know Ford make that number in a matter of hours but their products along with many other manufacturers are looking boring and definitely old world by comparison to the new wave. The new Nissan Leaf recently launched now has a range on one charge of over 400 kms which for many folk would mean that the car needs to be re charged on a once a week basis. This range is likely to continue to improve as battery tech Improves.
The established manufacturers are not far away I am sure.
Yes, I want a Tesla made by Lexus.
ssun30
Why would they bother with a V35A-FKS when they will have a turbo motor capable of taking its role?

The 200-250kW class engine is a workhorse, so it will not only be used by sports models like the IS, but one of the main purposes will be for light trucks and SUVs. The V35A-FKS is almost guaranteed to be less powerful and torquey as a utility vehicle engine than either the 1GR or 2GR. The hypothetical A24/25A-FTS will be more capable in every way imaginable. If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
in the end, i bet 2.5t will be more expensive than 2GR-FKS, so I doubt that NA will see that engine soon :)
Rob Grieveson
Please watch on You Tube Top Gear testing the Tesla 3, it is an impressive car and is scarily fast, simple and clean.
I think we are at the start of a revolution here, and these suggestions of various power plants in different models will be history because the Tesla shows just how much torque and speed it is capable of and no one will need more, and their autonomous driving system looks impressive as well. In this same You Tube Tesla clip the Tesla tested for speed round a track against an established high end sports car and yes the Tesla is faster and wins.
I want one!


That's the only video Top Gear has posted on YouTube about the Model 3. There was no track testing in it, just an introduction and a bit of driving around. However, there is a different video of the Model S P100D smoking a Porsche 911R while drag racing.



It seems like you're misinforming people here. I say this because you made the claim that it was the "Tesla 3" ... "In this same You Tube Tesla clip" ... "round a track." It was a different car, in a different video, going down a drag strip.
I thought Toyota was skipping lithium ion batteries altogether for their solid state batteries? So I highly doubt there will be a tesla rival anytime soon. At least for the initial pre facelifted 4IS anyway.

My hopes for the 4IS are simple. A more fuel efficient flagship to replace the ageing GR engine that has roughly 250kws output (even if it was hybrid). A slightly higher output 2L turbo 4 (180kw is just fine as it is. the car just needs to be a little lighter). Maybe a slightly higher output hybrid to replace the 300h? I'm not certain about that one as the camry/ES hybrid is roughly 152kw only...

Most importantly though...a bit more practicality without sacrificing design for the interior! I mean the current one is nice but it got date pretty quickly especially in drag dark grey plastic (even if it is higher quality than Toyota). I mean yeah it's good quality. But it would be nice to look it too with various materials. Also...pretty please include a sunglasses holder!
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  • July 7, 2018
Rob Grieveson
Interesting forum comments I think they need to re vamp te IS now not in two years time, and I agree that we need an electric IS to take on Tesla. Tesla are now producing 5000 of their 3 sedan per week and climbing and still cannot fulfill the de and.
I am pretty sure Toyota will not let this go and therefore expect to see an EV sooner rather than later. Looking at Tesla on You Tube it is hard not to be impressed with their car, simple, clean design like driving an iPhone and that is want the youngster relate to.
What demand is that exactly regarding the Model 3? The fact that the majority of Tesla 3 deposits have been for the cheaper base model which Tesla is not producing yet? We have no idea when Tesla will actually start production of the base $35,000 model. So far Tesla is only producing the much more expensive variants of the Model 3.

While you may be impressed, many others are not. The Model 3 has some massive, MASSIVE documented quality problems. Even compared to Tesla's subpar quality standards, some shortcuts have been taken and important steps have been skipped during Model 3 production so far.

mikeavelli
Good point about the Model 3, another disruptor from Tesla that is taking sales from everyone...
Let's see how Model 3 quality holds up, and when Tesla is actually able to deliver that $35,000 base model. The Model 3 has had some massive, massive problems so far.

ssun30
If the next Tacoma/4Runner/Prado does need a naturally aspirated V6 option they will stick to the 2GR-FKS, not developing an entirely new motor that does not offer more capabilities.
Not if Toyota values customer feedback. There has been some negative customer feedback so far for the 3rd gen Tacoma with the 2GR-FKS and 6 speed auto. Many feel the engine and transmission combination is a poor fit for the Tacoma. That's why used 2nd gen Tacoma values with the 1GR continue to hold incredibly. Of course the Tacoma sells no matter what, but the fact that the 3rd gen already has a negative reputation among many Toyota fans and some owners is significant.

The 2GR-FKS is a very poor fit for body-on-frame or heavier duty applications. I've driven the 4RX with the 2GR-FKS engine, and the engine is barely adequate for the unibody RX. It's not slow, but it's not fast at all and doesn't even feel powerful. It is merely adequate. Same thing with the fuel economy. It is not terrible, it is not amazing, it is only adequate. The 2GR-FKS in my opinion works fine for unibody applications, but definitely not body-on-frame.

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