Lexus ES: Sixth GenerationUSA

Lexus Aims for 50k ES Sedan Sales Per Year in USA

Lexus ES 300h

Lexus has high hopes that the new 2019 Lexus ES will appeal to a wider range of buyers with the release of the first-ever ES 350 F SPORT — here’s how the difference in demographics was presented during the sedan’s launch in Nashville last month:

Lexus ES Demographics

(As for the ES 300h buyers, Lexus expects them to follow the typical hybrid buyer, with a higher education level and a higher income.)

Together, all three ES variants will sell an estimated 50,000 units per year in the USA. This number is well below the five-year average of 64k, and signals a belief at Lexus that car sales will not rebound in the near future.

Another interesting detail is the split between the standard ES, ES F SPORT, and ES hybrid:

Lexus ES Variant Breakdown

Here’s a video for those interested in watching the full presentation from Lexus USA vice-president of marketing Cooper Ericksen:

Comments
Longer, lower, wider: not my idea of progress. And lumbar adjustment is no longer standard?
L
Krew

Are you able to upgrade the sport model to luxury or ultra luxury to gain leather seating and wood trim? The way i'm reading your review is the sport package comes standard with the premium package which has Nuluxe seating. I don't see an upgrade option for leather trim.
L
Krew

Are you able to upgrade the sport model to luxury or ultra luxury to gain leather seating and wood trim? The way i'm reading your review is the sport package comes standard with the premium package which has Nuluxe seating. I don't see an upgrade option for leather trim.
S
lsu5508
Krew

Are you able to upgrade the sport model to luxury or ultra luxury to gain leather seating and wood trim? The way i'm reading your review is the sport package comes standard with the premium package which has Nuluxe seating. I don't see an upgrade option for leather trim.
I don't believe you can. You can't get luxury nor the ultra packages on ES F-Sport.

Its pretty much gonna be like this:
Base model > Premium Pack > F-Sport (Premium Pack required).
Base model > Premium Pack > Luxury Pack (Premium Pack required) > Ultra Luxury Pack (Luxury Pack required).

So basically - F-Sport only gives with NuLuxe seats.

krew
I'll write more about this in my review next week, but there's a weight to the ES F SPORT steering that is missing from the standard model. I feel very confident saying the ES F SPORT is the car to buy -- driving experience is much better, but not at the expense of ride quality.
Agreed. For us car enthusiasts, if we were have to must have an ES, the F-Sport is the one to buy. But - I feel like for the target demographics of the ES - the Premium Pack to Luxury Package will be the most popular trim to buy.
S
lsu5508
Krew

Are you able to upgrade the sport model to luxury or ultra luxury to gain leather seating and wood trim? The way i'm reading your review is the sport package comes standard with the premium package which has Nuluxe seating. I don't see an upgrade option for leather trim.
I don't believe you can. You can't get luxury nor the ultra packages on ES F-Sport.

Its pretty much gonna be like this:
Base model > Premium Pack > F-Sport (Premium Pack required).
Base model > Premium Pack > Luxury Pack (Premium Pack required) > Ultra Luxury Pack (Luxury Pack required).

So basically - F-Sport only gives with NuLuxe seats.

krew
I'll write more about this in my review next week, but there's a weight to the ES F SPORT steering that is missing from the standard model. I feel very confident saying the ES F SPORT is the car to buy -- driving experience is much better, but not at the expense of ride quality.
Agreed. For us car enthusiasts, if we were have to must have an ES, the F-Sport is the one to buy. But - I feel like for the target demographics of the ES - the Premium Pack to Luxury Package will be the most popular trim to buy.
L
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other. I cant see myself spending 40k-50k on a car and not getting a basic luxury amenity like leather seats. I understand the market for each car is different but i have to imagine there are alot of people that want some of both.
L
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other. I cant see myself spending 40k-50k on a car and not getting a basic luxury amenity like leather seats. I understand the market for each car is different but i have to imagine there are alot of people that want some of both.
S
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other.
Its pretty pick and choose, in this case. If you want luxury or sporty appearance. Similar how Acura TLX/RDX won't let you Advance Pack if you do A-Spec.

Now obviously its your money, but my advice would be to option for the Luxury or Ultra Luxury and skip the F-Sport if you want a 2019 ES.

The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.

Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
S
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other.
Its pretty pick and choose, in this case. If you want luxury or sporty appearance. Similar how Acura TLX/RDX won't let you Advance Pack if you do A-Spec.

Now obviously its your money, but my advice would be to option for the Luxury or Ultra Luxury and skip the F-Sport if you want a 2019 ES.

The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.

Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
Sakura
Its pretty pick and choose, in this case. If you want luxury or sporty appearance. Similar how Acura TLX/RDX won't let you Advance Pack if you do A-Spec.

Now obviously its your money, but my advice would be to option for the Luxury or Ultra Luxury and skip the F-Sport if you want a 2019 ES.

The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.

Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Sakura
Its pretty pick and choose, in this case. If you want luxury or sporty appearance. Similar how Acura TLX/RDX won't let you Advance Pack if you do A-Spec.

Now obviously its your money, but my advice would be to option for the Luxury or Ultra Luxury and skip the F-Sport if you want a 2019 ES.

The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.

Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
L
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats, an interior color other than black or red or an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
L
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats, an interior color other than black or red or an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
Amazing report
But honestly my eye catcher was this
[​IMG]

Dreaming if they turn this exactly as the next GS
Amazing report
But honestly my eye catcher was this
[​IMG]

Dreaming if they turn this exactly as the next GS
Sakura
The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

Sakura
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

Sakura
Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Sakura
The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

Sakura
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

Sakura
Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
S
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Agree to disagree for this, I guess. I see it as more black and white for the Lexus ES because they are forcing you to either have F-Sport or Luxury Pack. It'll be less Black and White if they let you mix-package it. I would have loved it if we could get the Luxury Pack on top of the F-Sport pack. But they are making you choose Sport or Luxury - to me that's black/white. Either Apple or Orange.

Agreed. Its not a sports car - it never was meant to be one. That's why in my opinion, I see the luxury packages as more valuable and worth wild compared to the F-Sport. Some of the bells and whistles on both the Luxury and Ultra Luxury Pack seems more worth it to me than the F-Sport.

True. Overall review says the ES handles pretty decent for a FWD. However - from the reviews I saw - majority of them said the F-Sport + Sport+ mode changes were subtle, at best, changes to the handling. This is why, in my opinion, I would prefer the Lexus ES Luxury Pack. Similarly - I would prefer the Lexus LS with the Executive Pack with Kiriko (not available on F-Sport.) For these cars, I want the car to make me feel like home. If I wanted a F-Sport Lexus that's in the 50K, I'll get a IS350 F-Sport and skip the luxury stuff for the IS.

ssun30
1)It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

2)I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

3)You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

4) This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Ssun30, I numbered your quote to make it easier to reply to :)

1) Thanks for that info. I never knew that. I thought it was a bit odd the 19 Lexus ES350 with the 2GR-FKS can only run 6.6 seconds to 60. I assume it'll be a tad bit slower than the Camry XSE due to weight probably.

2) Agreed. The wheel-spin alone will be a good reason for them to add AWD. However - this is from a car enthusiast's perspective. From my experience of being a heavy Toyota shareholder, Toyota doesn't really make choices for the car enthusiast. They make most of their decision for the share-holder and what will generate more profit. If they feel like the AWD will sell and is it needed, they'll add it.
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.

3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. And to me, that's not worth the insane (near LS-like) features on the Ultra Luxury Pack.
But - the M Sport, AMG Line, and S-Line packages don't restrict you from getting the fancier luxury features. German's build are very liquid, you can option anything and pack anything regardless of design packages. However - Lexus and Acura restricts you.
Obviously - if an Ultra Luxury Pack F-Sport exist - I would love that. It would be amazing. But it doesn't, and since it doesn't, I personally would be more incline to take the Ultra Luxury Pack because I don't see a use in a F-Sport ES.
S
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Agree to disagree for this, I guess. I see it as more black and white for the Lexus ES because they are forcing you to either have F-Sport or Luxury Pack. It'll be less Black and White if they let you mix-package it. I would have loved it if we could get the Luxury Pack on top of the F-Sport pack. But they are making you choose Sport or Luxury - to me that's black/white. Either Apple or Orange.

Agreed. Its not a sports car - it never was meant to be one. That's why in my opinion, I see the luxury packages as more valuable and worth wild compared to the F-Sport. Some of the bells and whistles on both the Luxury and Ultra Luxury Pack seems more worth it to me than the F-Sport.

True. Overall review says the ES handles pretty decent for a FWD. However - from the reviews I saw - majority of them said the F-Sport + Sport+ mode changes were subtle, at best, changes to the handling. This is why, in my opinion, I would prefer the Lexus ES Luxury Pack. Similarly - I would prefer the Lexus LS with the Executive Pack with Kiriko (not available on F-Sport.) For these cars, I want the car to make me feel like home. If I wanted a F-Sport Lexus that's in the 50K, I'll get a IS350 F-Sport and skip the luxury stuff for the IS.

ssun30
1)It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

2)I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

3)You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

4) This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Ssun30, I numbered your quote to make it easier to reply to :)

1) Thanks for that info. I never knew that. I thought it was a bit odd the 19 Lexus ES350 with the 2GR-FKS can only run 6.6 seconds to 60. I assume it'll be a tad bit slower than the Camry XSE due to weight probably.

2) Agreed. The wheel-spin alone will be a good reason for them to add AWD. However - this is from a car enthusiast's perspective. From my experience of being a heavy Toyota shareholder, Toyota doesn't really make choices for the car enthusiast. They make most of their decision for the share-holder and what will generate more profit. If they feel like the AWD will sell and is it needed, they'll add it.
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.

3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. And to me, that's not worth the insane (near LS-like) features on the Ultra Luxury Pack.
But - the M Sport, AMG Line, and S-Line packages don't restrict you from getting the fancier luxury features. German's build are very liquid, you can option anything and pack anything regardless of design packages. However - Lexus and Acura restricts you.
Obviously - if an Ultra Luxury Pack F-Sport exist - I would love that. It would be amazing. But it doesn't, and since it doesn't, I personally would be more incline to take the Ultra Luxury Pack because I don't see a use in a F-Sport ES.
Sakura
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
Sakura
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
ssun30
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.


This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
ssun30
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.


This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
Sakura
3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. A
but it does heavily effect handling and I bet when you try it you will discover that, just like @krew did.
Sakura
3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. A
but it does heavily effect handling and I bet when you try it you will discover that, just like @krew did.
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.

S
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