Sales ReportsUSA

Lexus August 2017 Sales Report

Lexus August 2017 Sales

USA

Lexus USA has reported 30,801 total sales for August 2017, a 4.1% decrease over last year — here’s the model-by-model breakdown:

MONTH Year to Date (*DSR)
2017 2016 % CHG* 2017 2016 % CHG*
CT 204 819 ‐76 4,572 6,183 ‐26.1
IS 2,445 3,525 ‐33.2 17,216 24,085 ‐28.5
RC 665 1,065 ‐39.9 4,286 7,334 ‐41.6
ES 6,404 5,840 5.6 34,845 39,230 ‐11.2
GS 689 1,228 ‐46 4,894 9,898 ‐50.6
LS 413 457 ‐13 2,670 3,768 ‐29.1
LC 291 0 0 1,449 0 0
LFA 0 0 0 1 6 ‐83.3
Total Cars 11,111 12,934 ‐17.3 69,933 90,504 ‐22.7
NX 5,517 5,407 ‐1.7 36,946 33,386 10.7
RX 10,391 9,701 3.1 66,760 67,635 ‐1.3
GX 3,336 2,493 28.9 16,308 15,561 4.8
LX 446 403 6.6 3,516 3,306 6.4
Total Trucks 19,690 18,004 5.3 123,530 119,888 3
Total Sales 30,801 30,938 ‐4.1 193,463 210,392 ‐8

Please note, all percentages are calculated by the Daily Sales Rate (DSR), which takes into account the number of days in the month that dealerships could sell cars. August 2017 had 27 selling days, August 2016 had 26 selling days.

Lexus SUVs and crossovers set a new August sales record this month with a stellar performance across the board. On the other hand, the car lineup had a difficult time, with only the ES & LC showing any real signs of life — from the press release:

“Customers took advantage of our Golden Opportunity Sales Event and we were pleased to see Lexus sedans gain momentum for the month of August, most notably the ES,” said Jeff Bracken, Lexus group vice president and general manager. “We also saw a sales increase for the NX and GX luxury utility vehicles. As the new 2018 models begin to roll in, we expect strong sales as we head toward the end of the year.”

Canada

Lexus Canada set its 14th consecutive monthly record, with 2,086 luxury vehicles sold and an increase of 5.8% compared to last year. Even car sales are up — here is the full model-by-model breakdown:

MONTH Year to Date (*DSR)
2017 2016 % CHG* 2017 2016 % CHG*
CT 29 27 7.4% 314 343 -8.5%
IS 290 304 -4.6% 2208 2004 10.2%
RC 56 64 -12.5% 344 362 -5.0%
ES 166 185 -10.3% 1268 1410 -10.1%
GS 21 30 -30.0% 218 280 -22.1%
LS 2 5 -60.0% 37 60 -38.3%
LC 32 0 0 93 0 0
Total Cars 596 615 -3.1% 4482 4459 0.5%
NX 711 548 29.7% 4800 3883 23.6%
RX 731 720 1.5% 5972 5149 16.0%
GX 24 32 -25.0% 351 347 1.2%
LX 24 57 -57.9% 663 456 45.4%
Total Trucks 1490 1357 9.8% 11786 9835 19.8%
Total Sales 2086 1972 5.8% 16268 14294 13.8%
Comments
C
  • C
    CIF
  • September 1, 2017
Looking at combined Toyota/Lexus sales, those are some rock solid Camry and ES sales. They are bucking the trend in the face of a shrinking sedan segment. Way to go!

Also look at those GX sales! Wow over 3,000! Incredible.
Its stunning to see Lexus barely sell 600 GS units, arguably the best driving car in class and the older GX sell a record month of over 3,300 units with no trying.

LC dipped off, hopefully that is due to inventory.
M
Do you think Lexus will bring a next generation of the GX because of the increase amount of sales or is Lexus going to use the 3 row RX as a replacement for the GX?
G
SUVs!!! Body-on-Frame!
And RX! lol

The ES would do even better if it were to jump onto the new platform.
Lexus actually did quite well compared to its German rivals. Here are the highlights from an article by Amy Wilson of Automotive News:

Sales for the top three luxury auto brands fell in August, but No. 3 Lexus made up significant ground on its main German rivals by holding its sales loss to a much narrower margin...

Mercedes-Benz's sales, excluding the Sprinter and Metris commercial vehicles, slumped 11 percent to 25,373. BMW's fell 7.7 percent to 23,553.

No. 3 Lexus narrowed the gap by holding its own August decline to 0.4 percent and selling the most luxury vehicles -- 30,801 -- of any brand in the month.

Through the first eight months of 2017, Mercedes, with luxury sales of 213,242, still has a lead of 18,638 over BMW. BMW and Lexus are now much closer, with BMW hanging on to a 1,141-vehicle edge over Lexus...

Luxury brands that experienced sales gains in August were Audi, Infiniti, Genesis, Volvo and Land Rover. Only the first three were also up in the first eight months of the year.
For the full article:
http://www.autonews.com/article/201...y-slump?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
That link didn't work for me, but this did (I'll put its entirety if someone can't access the links):

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...uxury-lexus-makes-up-ground-amid-luxury-slump
LUXURY: Lexus makes up ground amid luxury slump

Sales for the top three luxury auto brands fell in August, but No. 3 Lexus made up significant ground on its main German rivals by holding its sales loss to a much narrower margin.

With the effects of Hurricane Harvey crimping sales industrywide, U.S. sales of luxury vehicles fell 3.8 percent in August from the year-earlier month to 171,307 units. That was a steeper decline than the 1.8 percent drop in total U.S. light-vehicles sales last month.

Sales slid by even larger margins for the top two brands. Mercedes-Benz's sales, excluding the Sprinter and Metris commercial vehicles, slumped 11 percent to 25,373. BMW's fell 7.7 percent to 23,553.

No. 3 Lexus narrowed the gap by holding its own August decline to 0.4 percent and selling the most luxury vehicles -- 30,801 -- of any brand in the month.

Through the first eight months of 2017, Mercedes, with luxury sales of 213,242, still has a lead of 18,638 over BMW. BMW and Lexus are now much closer, with BMW hanging on to a 1,141-vehicle edge over Lexus.

"Customers took advantage of our Golden Opportunity Sales Event, and we were pleased to see Lexus sedans gain momentum for the month of August, most notably the ES," Jeff Bracken, Lexus general manager, said in a statement. "We also saw a sales increase for the NX and GX luxury utility vehicles. As the new 2018 models begin to roll in, we expect strong sales as we head toward the end of the year."

Availability, floods

Several luxury automakers pointed to limited availability of key models as a reason for their August decline. Several also cited flooding caused by Hurricane Harvey in Houston and other parts of Texas as August ended.

"The fourth week of the month is typically our strongest selling period within the month, so that lined up to be, first and foremost, a devastation for the city and the residents, but then from a pure business standpoint, it has affected our sales there," Drew Slaven, vice president of marketing at Mercedes-Benz USA, said of the storm. "By how much, I can't say, because we don't know yet."

Mercedes dealerships in Texas escaped flood damage to their buildings and vehicle inventories, Slaven said. There are seven Mercedes-Benz dealerships in Houston and 17 in the metro Houston area. Those 17 dealerships, plus some others in outlying markets, were closed for varying periods of time during the storm. As of Friday morning, most were back up running, and all were expected to be fully operational by Tuesday, Slaven said.

With parts of the region still under water and east Texas still in storm recovery mode, Harvey is expected to affect Labor Day weekend sales and September's outcome, as well.

Challenges

Luxury automakers reported challenges with inventory levels in August, particularly on the SUV and crossover side.

"August numbers were a bit unusual in that sedans outpaced our SAVs as model year changeover for the X5 and new model production of the X3 significantly restricted availability of our especially popular SAV models," BMW of North America CEO Bernhard Kuhnt said in a statement. "This of course will improve as production ramps up."

Notable gains for BMW in August included the 4 series, 5 series and X1, the company said.

Limited availability of several models hurt the Mercedes monthly total, Mercedes-Benz USA CEO Dietmar Exler said in a statement. He didn't specify the affected models, but it particularly involved SUVs, a company spokeswoman said. Mercedes-Benz volume leaders in August included the C class, GLC and GLE.

Porsche saw a string of monthly increases end in August. Sales were down 9.1 percent to 4,709. Porsche pointed to delays in delivery of 2018 model year vehicles. Many of those are still "in the final regulatory approval process," Porsche said in a statement. "Porsche is working diligently to obtain all required approvals as soon as possible."

Sales of the top-selling Macan slumped 29 percent to 1,641.

Luxury brands that experienced sales gains in August were Audi, Infiniti, Genesis, Volvo and Land Rover. Only the first three were also up in the first eight months of the year.
Surprising that the ES is still rising, but with incentives like these, I suppose all the "on the fencers" AKA at or close to retirement guys were finally seeing a good deal on the car (Like my dad).
The ES is doing pretty decent. The ES still outsells the IS and I love both models. Lexus could sell more ES units by introducing an ES coupe based on the Toyota Solara.

ES 300h
ES 350
ES 300h C
ES 350 C
M
Trexus
The ES is doing pretty decent. The ES still outsells the IS and I love both models. Lexus could sell more ES units by introducing an ES coupe based on the Toyota Solara.

ES 300h
ES 350
ES 300h C
ES 350 C
good idea, but it would even better if Lexus made a 5 door version like the BMW 535 GT.
Michael
good idea, but it would even better if Lexus made a 5 door version like the BMW 535 GT.
True, Lexus should take the IS and GS and make a 3 and 5 Series GT 5 door version.

As for an ES coupe it could potentially increase sales of the ES line by 11% - 20%.
Michael
good idea, but it would even better if Lexus made a 5 door version like the BMW 535 GT.
who ever buys those? I rarely see them in Europe, they are very ugly vehicles.
Not sure about the ES coupe idea. The Solara was discontinued because it didn't sell well. And it didn't sell well because it was always one generation behind the Camry. And it always lagged behind because it didn't save a lot of engineering effort (being based on the Camry) as Toyota expected it to be.
ssun30
Not sure about the ES coupe idea. The Solara was discontinued because it didn't sell well. And it didn't sell well because it was always one generation behind the Camry. And it always lagged behind because it didn't save a lot of engineering effort (being based on the Camry) as Toyota expected it to be.
I disagree the solara was more upscale to the camry and always ahead of the camry.
bogglo
I disagree the solara was more upscale to the camry and always ahead of the camry.
I was referring to the fact that the XV20 and XV30 Solara were both introduced when their Camry counterparts were already 3 years old, which means they were always using outdated technology. I remember the XV40 2GR Camry was so much superior to the XV30 Solara the latter went into oblivion with its decade old 3MZ. It means TMC didn't save much engineering effort by sharing platform between a convertible coupe and a sedan, which is counterproductive.
ssun30
I was referring to the fact that the XV20 and XV30 Solara were both introduced when their Camry counterparts were already 3 years old, which means they were always using outdated technology. I remember the XV40 2GR Camry was so much superior to the XV30 Solara the latter went into oblivion with its decade old 3MZ. It means TMC didn't save much engineering effort by sharing platform between a convertible coupe and a sedan, which is counterproductive.

But still, the XV30 Solara Convertible has Toyota's best exterior design ever, it just looks right (the Coupe not so much).
I actually prefer all the solara coupe to the to the convertibles and my favorite solara was the first Gen.
compare the interior design of the solara in 2004 to the camry in 2004/2005/2006. Then see what happened in 2007 to the interior of the camry.


if you look at the rear view of the first solara and the 04-10 6series I thinks there is some similarities there . the only difference is one is more bulky.

am not going to argue about the engine. but considering how I beat up mine I had no complaint.
M
The UX and the 3-row RX can't come any sooner. The NX refresh will also do wonders for that line's sales. I feel like the NX will not experience the mid cycle sales slump trend that other Lexus models experience. Its sales will keep going higher until right before the next generation comes in a couple of years.
I agree mordecai. When the 3 row RX comes out sales will go up for the RX line and the UX will also increase sales for Lexus. The NX is on fire...sales of the NX since inception:

2014 = 2,927
2015 = 43,764
2016 = 54,884
2017 = 36,946 From January thru August 2017. I'm projecting total NX sales for 2017 at about 56,000 units or more.
Total = 138,521
You got a mistake with the NX percentage numbers for the month. It should be +1.7% I guess.
Hemi
You got a mistake with the NX percentage numbers for the month. It should be +1.7% I guess.
Not really...Percentage is based on the Total Sales && No. of Days. 201708 has 27 days while 201608 has 26 days.

With this trend and the low gas prices the GX may just live on and it SHOULD. Unless Lexus starts the LX at $70k and goes on from there to $90+k, many people wants a nice Lexus BOF but NOT $100k vehicle.
South Florida is Lexus biggest market, not sure if that holds for the other German brands as well. With Irma coming sales will be slower here which won't help with momentum. A big blip to taking over BMW when every day is needed to make that happen.

BMW has the brand new 5, I haven't kept up with sales of it so I plan to check things out now. I see they have new SUVs coming.
If Lexus has any hope of catching up to Mercedes and BMW in the next few years, they need:

UX
Base I4
Turbo I4
Hybrid I4

NX
Base Turbo I4
Hybrid I4
V6
NX F

RX
Base V6
Upmarket turbo V6
Hybrid V6
RX F

RX L
Base V6
Upmarket turbo V6
Hybrid V6

GA-L Based GX
Base turbo V6
Multi-Stage Hybrid V6
Optional V8
GX F

LX
Base TT V6
Optional V8

IS SportCross

GS SportCross
I would say ES SportCross, but basing this on the more performance-oriented GS would be a good way to distance it from the RX.

The Germans are churning out so many new SUVs so quickly that Lexus won't be able to keep up unless there is a massive product onslaught AND diversification in the next few years. We need more engine options, more F and maybe even off-road packages a la TRD Pro for GX and LX.

BMW is in a slump right now but they are also preparing new X2, X3, X5 and X7.
Solid numbers so far
Hope it don't have high percentage lease or corp cars
Updated the original post with the Canadian numbers:

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2017/09/01/lexus-august-2017-sales-report/
Gecko
If Lexus has any hope of catching up to Mercedes and BMW in the next few years, they need:

UX
Base I4
Turbo I4
Hybrid I4

NX
Base Turbo I4
Hybrid I4
V6
NX F

RX
Base V6
Upmarket turbo V6
Hybrid V6
RX F

RX L
Base V6
Upmarket turbo V6
Hybrid V6

GA-L Based GX
Base turbo V6
Multi-Stage Hybrid V6
Optional V8
GX F

LX
Base TT V6
Optional V8
You've just proposed way too many high-powered gas-only trims and F-cars than what's necessary. That's why big corporations like TMC don't take enthusiasts too seriously because they just think performance cars are as simple as slapping a bigger engine and profit, except they aren't.

Just because MB offers an AMG in every SUV line it sells doesn't mean Lexus needs to follow with F-SUVs everywhere, maybe except at the very top. High performance models generally require the base models to be overengineered to accomodate the larger drivetrain and to have enough body rigidity to be drivable. Remember the UX/NX/RX are pretty much upscaled Toyotas so the platform has to be low-cost and low-labor. Lexus is already struggling to keep the NX and RX in stock, making them shrink in volume to be "F-ready" is out of the question.

Let's start with the UX; we all know what will end up in it given the registered trademarks: a 200, a 250, and a 250h. The UX by no means needs 8AR-level of power given how small it is. The 2.5 Dynamic Force is already sufficient to give it hothatch-like acceleration. An overwhelming amount of UX sold world wide will be the 200 (in Asia), followed by the 250h (in Europe). The 250 is just there to appease a few Americans who absolutely need to do highway pulls.

The NX doesn't need a V6 because a 3.0 won't be more powerful than the 2.0T, a 3.5 is too big for many markets, and a 3.0TT is not compact enough. It needs more hybrid options, PHEV, BEV, FCEV, or whatever clean technology TMC could throw at it. However, given just how important NX has become, a half serious F effort could be a possibility, but one that people will hate because at the end of the day it's a super RAV4.

The RX/RX-L needs a 2.0T, a budget hybrid, and an upscale hybrid. The second one is an obvious void in the current RX's lineup.

The "GA-L" GX is the best candidate for a true upscale and performance-oriented SUV, fully ditching its offroad focus to go head on against the X5/6. GX-F is the high performance SUV that makes the most amount of sense. The LX is already ridiculously expensive so an F/"uberoffroad" model won't be impossible either.

You see, Lexus could keep its gas-devouring dinosaurs we all love (GS-F/LC500/LX570 etc.) alive because their mass market hybrids are vegetarian MPG champions. Who would love to see the naturally aspirated wonder in the LC500 go away? It's there because of CT200h/ES300h/NX300h feeding all the gas it wants. With ridiculously strict CAFE regulations being introduced in 2020s around the world it makes obvious sense for Lexus to no longer offer high powered gas-only mass market vehicles and commit to hybrids.
ssun30
You've just proposed way too many high-powered gas-only trims and F-cars than what's necessary. That's why big corporations like TMC don't take enthusiasts too seriously because they just think performance cars are as simple as slapping a bigger engine and profit, except they aren't.

Just because MB offers an AMG in every SUV line it sells doesn't mean Lexus needs to follow with F-SUVs everywhere, maybe except at the very top. High performance models generally require the base models to be overengineered to accomodate the larger drivetrain and to have enough body rigidity to be drivable. Remember the UX/NX/RX are pretty much upscaled Toyotas so the platform has to be low-cost and low-labor. Lexus is already struggling to keep the NX and RX in stock, making them shrink in volume to be "F-ready" is out of the question.

Let's start with the UX; we all know what will end up in it given the registered trademarks: a 200, a 250, and a 250h. The UX by no means needs 8AR-level of power given how small it is. The 2.5 Dynamic Force is already sufficient to give it hothatch-like acceleration. An overwhelming amount of UX sold world wide will be the 200 (in Asia), followed by the 250h (in Europe). The 250 is just there to appease a few Americans who absolutely need to do highway pulls.

The NX doesn't need a V6 because a 3.0 won't be more powerful than the 2.0T, a 3.5 is too big for many markets, and a 3.0TT is not compact enough. It needs more hybrid options, PHEV, BEV, FCEV, or whatever clean technology TMC could throw at it. However, given just how important NX has become, a half serious F effort could be a possibility, but one that people will hate because at the end of the day it's a super RAV4.

The RX/RX-L needs a 2.0T, a budget hybrid, and an upscale hybrid. The second one is an obvious void in the current RX's lineup.

The "GA-L" GX is the best candidate for a true upscale and performance-oriented SUV, fully ditching its offroad focus to go head on against the X5/6. GX-F is the high performance SUV that makes the most amount of sense. The LX is already ridiculously expensive so an F/"uberoffroad" model won't be impossible either.

You see, Lexus could keep its gas-devouring dinosaurs we all love (GS-F/LC500/LX570 etc.) alive because their mass market hybrids are vegetarian MPG champions. Who would love to see the naturally aspirated wonder in the LC500 go away? It's there because of CT200h/ES300h/NX300h feeding all the gas it wants. With ridiculously strict CAFE regulations being introduced in 2020s around the world it makes obvious sense for Lexus to no longer offer high powered gas-only mass market vehicles and commit to hybrids.
Alfa Romeo Stelvio
Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio (coming)
Audi SQ3
Audi SQ5
Audi SQ7
BMW X3 M (coming)
BMW X4 M40i
BMW X5 M
BMW X6 M
Jaguar F-Pace R-Sport
Jaguar F-Pace SVR (coming)
Maserati Levante
Maserati Levante S
Mercedes- AMG GLC43
Mercedes- AMG GLC63
Mercedes- AMG GLC43 Coupe
Mercedes- AMG GLE43
Mercedes- AMG GLE63
Mercedes- AMG GLE63 S
Mercedes- AMG GLE43 Coupe
Mercedes- AMG GLE63 S Coupe
Mercedes- AMG GLS63
Mercedes-AMG G63
Mercedes-AMG G65
Porsche Macan
Morsche Macan S
Porsche Macan GTS
Porsche Macan Turbo
Porsche Macan Turbo w/ Performance Package
Porsche Cayenne
Porsche Cayenne S
Porsche Cayenne GTS
Porsche Cayenne Turbo
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S
Range Rover Sport Supercharged
Range Rover Sport SVR
Range Rover Velar
Range Rover Velar SVR (coming)

Tell me again how Lexus doesn't need high-power, performance SUVs?

While I greatly appreciate your more international view, I completely disagree with your viewpoint. It isn't just Mercedes making high powered SUVs - it's everyone. And if Lexus decides to not follow suit, they'll simply be seen as a second or third tier brand - even moreso as consumer buying tastes continue to shift towards SUVs.

The people who bought GS Fs and RC Fs... what's Lexus going to do when those folks decide they too want an SUV? An RX F Sport? LOL.


Lexus introduced the first unibody luxury SUV 20 years ago and it has yet to break 310 horsepower. Jaguar, brand new to the game, is about to pick up the book and throw it in Lexus' face with a V8 F-Pace SVR.

Does anyone need AMG, M, V, RS, Black Series, whatever? No, they don't. But guess what - they do sell to a select group of people, and even for many of the folks who can't afford them, they create a halo effect for the model line and the brand as a whole. That's only a good thing.

The NX absolutely needs a V6 - the 2.0T is not nearly as refined or powerful as a small displacement V6, nor is it even really efficient. That power plant in the NX is a lose-lose. Audi, Mercedes and BMW all offer a 320+hp version of their compact ute and the NX is literally just a "super Rav4" as you put it.

Put simply, Lexus needs to get their heads out of their asses and put an SUV or two on GA-L before it's too late. Building "super Rav4s" and "super Highlanders" is great for people for who are cross shopping against has-been brands like Acura, Buick and Infiniti. If Lexus wants the "share of mind" from the person shopping for an X5, GLS, Cayenne, Macan or any of the other names I mentioned above, they need a complete strategy shift with more models, more diversification and more packages.

If the ES does indeed replace the GS as Lexus' defacto midsize sedan, they're going to be fighting the same battle. I bet if you put premium in the 2GR-FKS from the Camry, it might bump you up to 306hp? 306hp ES vs 600hp M5 and E63. Sorry, but I'm laughing.

The next two years will be "make it or break it" for Lexus "good enough" strategy with dressing up Toyota cars. LC and LS are steps in the right direction - but now its time to fill out the rest of the portfolio from the top-down. Lexus is either about about to step up and join BMW, Mercedes and Audi, or fall backwards into the same ranks as Cadillac, Acura and Infiniti. There's no more in-between - the Germans have completely raised the stakes on what it means to be and build a luxury car.
Gecko
Alfa Romeo Stelvio
Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio (coming)
Audi SQ3
Audi SQ5
Audi SQ7
BMW X3 M (coming)
BMW X4 M40i
BMW X5 M
BMW X6 M
Jaguar F-Pace R-Sport
Jaguar F-Pace SVR (coming)
Maserati Levante
Maserati Levante S
Mercedes- AMG GLC43
Mercedes- AMG GLC63
Mercedes- AMG GLC43 Coupe
Mercedes- AMG GLE43
Mercedes- AMG GLE63
Mercedes- AMG GLE63 S
Mercedes- AMG GLE43 Coupe
Mercedes- AMG GLE63 S Coupe
Mercedes- AMG GLS63
Mercedes-AMG G63
Mercedes-AMG G65
Porsche Macan
Morsche Macan S
Porsche Macan GTS
Porsche Macan Turbo
Porsche Macan Turbo w/ Performance Package
Porsche Cayenne
Porsche Cayenne S
Porsche Cayenne GTS
Porsche Cayenne Turbo
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S
Range Rover Sport Supercharged
Range Rover Sport SVR
Range Rover Velar
Range Rover Velar SVR (coming)

Tell me again how Lexus doesn't need high-power, performance SUVs?

While I greatly appreciate your more international view, I completely disagree with your viewpoint. It isn't just Mercedes making high powered SUVs - it's everyone. And if Lexus decides to not follow suit, they'll simply be seen as a second or third tier brand - even moreso as consumer buying tastes continue to shift towards SUVs.

The people who bought GS Fs and RC Fs... what's Lexus going to do when those folks decide they too want an SUV? An RX F Sport? LOL.


Lexus introduced the first unibody luxury SUV 20 years ago and it has yet to break 310 horsepower. Jaguar, brand new to the game, is about to pick up the book and throw it in Lexus' face with a V8 F-Pace SVR.

Does anyone need AMG, M, V, RS, Black Series, whatever? No, they don't. But guess what - they do sell to a select group of people, and even for many of the folks who can't afford them, they create a halo effect for the model line and the brand as a whole. That's only a good thing.

The NX absolutely needs a V6 - the 2.0T is not nearly as refined or powerful as a small displacement V6, nor is it even really efficient. That power plant in the NX is a lose-lose. Audi, Mercedes and BMW all offer a 320+hp version of their compact ute and the NX is literally just a "super Rav4" as you put it.

Put simply, Lexus needs to get out of the vacuum they've spent 15 years in, and put an SUV or two on GA-L before it's too late. Building "super Rav4s" and "super Highlanders" is great for people for who are cross shopping against has-been brands like Acura, Buick and Infiniti. If Lexus wants the "share of mind" from the person shopping for an X5, GLS, Cayenne, Macan or any of the other names I mentioned above, they need a complete strategy shift with more models, more diversification and more packages.

If the ES does indeed replace the GS as Lexus' defacto midsize sedan, they're going to be fighting the same battle. I bet if you put premium in the 2GR-FKS from the Camry, it might bump you up to 306hp? 306hp ES vs 600hp M5 and E63. Sorry, but I'm laughing.

If TNGA is really as strong and flexible as Toyota says, they need to come up with an ACTIVE All-Wheel-Drive system that will split torque between the front and rear wheels on a continual basis, vs. something like DTC AWD that requires a loss of traction or reverts to FWD as the default. A 360HP NX on TNGA with active AWD would be perfect for NX F. Stroke the motor a little more for 450hp in an RX F with the same AWD system. It can work - Audi does it and has for years. That's a cheap and easy solution vs. building a performance ute from the ground up as RWD (which, as you know, is also much more expensive.)

Your point about more hybrid models is great and I'd love to see them combine plug in, hybrid and ICE for some real performance monsters that also get 35+MPG... but that's a long shot as Lexus lost their flag-bearing position with hybrids several years ago. We need a multi-stage 4cyl hybrid, plug-in, multi-stage V8 hybrid, etc. I don't really care where the power/performance gains come from as long as they materialize.

The next two years will be "make it or break it" for Lexus' "good enough" strategy with dressing up Toyota cars. LC and LS are steps in the right direction - but now its time to fill out the rest of the portfolio from the top-down. Lexus is either about about to step up and join BMW, Mercedes and Audi, or fall backwards into the same ranks as Cadillac, Acura and Infiniti. There's no more in-between - the Germans have completely raised the stakes on what it means to be and build a luxury car.
You both have solid arguments. But Gecko is right. Eventually Lexus would have to step up their SUV game if they want to keep competing with the Germans. That's why am really hoping they think ahead with the production of the UX. the same way the ISF was the first F car they can make the UX debut with the first F SUV. Just give it an AWD system. then they can work their way up just the way they did with the GS and now probably the LS.

If the new trend is SUV then they will need to make their small SUV more playful. AWD system with Camry engine is a good starting point.
bogglo
You both have solid arguments. But Gecko is right. Eventually Lexus would have to step up their SUV game if they want to keep competing with the Germans. That's why am really hoping they think ahead with the production of the UX. the same way the ISF was the first F car they can make the UX debut with the first F SUV. Just give it an AWD system. then they can work their way up just the way they did with the GS and now probably the LS.

If the new trend is SUV then they will need to make their small SUV more playful. AWD system with Camry engine is a good starting point.
If they come out with a UXF I'm buying it Day 1!
James
If they come out with a UXF I'm buying it Day 1!
Yeah the UX is a clean slate for Lexus and a perfect chance for them to show their intentions for future SUV.
Also Lexus would eventually need a 3.0TT engine I feel that would be the perfect engine to replace all their 3.5L engines.
I would so get a GX F. Lexus needs to expand the F line.

IS F (bring it back asap)
GS F
RC F
LC F
LS F (bring it on)
GX F (first Lexus F SUV which can go head to head with BMW's X5 M and X6 M)
Gecko
Tell me again how Lexus doesn't need high-power, performance SUVs?

While I greatly appreciate your more international view, I completely disagree with your viewpoint. It isn't just Mercedes making high powered SUVs - it's everyone. And if Lexus decides to not follow suit, they'll simply be seen as a second or third tier brand - even moreso as consumer buying tastes continue to shift towards SUVs.

The people who bought GS Fs and RC Fs... what's Lexus going to do when those folks decide they too want an SUV? An RX F Sport? LOL.


Lexus introduced the first unibody luxury SUV 20 years ago and it has yet to break 310 horsepower. Jaguar, brand new to the game, is about to pick up the book and throw it in Lexus' face with a V8 F-Pace SVR.

Does anyone need AMG, M, V, RS, Black Series, whatever? No, they don't. But guess what - they do sell to a select group of people, and even for many of the folks who can't afford them, they create a halo effect for the model line and the brand as a whole. That's only a good thing.

The NX absolutely needs a V6 - the 2.0T is not nearly as refined or powerful as a small displacement V6, nor is it even really efficient. That power plant in the NX is a lose-lose. Audi, Mercedes and BMW all offer a 320+hp version of their compact ute and the NX is literally just a "super Rav4" as you put it.

Put simply, Lexus needs to get out of the vacuum they've spent 15 years in, and put an SUV or two on GA-L before it's too late. Building "super Rav4s" and "super Highlanders" is great for people for who are cross shopping against has-been brands like Acura, Buick and Infiniti. If Lexus wants the "share of mind" from the person shopping for an X5, GLS, Cayenne, Macan or any of the other names I mentioned above, they need a complete strategy shift with more models, more diversification and more packages.

If the ES does indeed replace the GS as Lexus' defacto midsize sedan, they're going to be fighting the same battle. I bet if you put premium in the 2GR-FKS from the Camry, it might bump you up to 306hp? 306hp ES vs 600hp M5 and E63. Sorry, but I'm laughing.

If TNGA is really as strong and flexible as Toyota says, they need to come up with an ACTIVE All-Wheel-Drive system that will split torque between the front and rear wheels on a continual basis, vs. something like DTC AWD that requires a loss of traction or reverts to FWD as the default. A 360HP NX on TNGA with active AWD would be perfect for NX F. Stroke the motor a little more for 450hp in an RX F with the same AWD system. It can work - Audi does it and has for years. That's a cheap and easy solution vs. building a performance ute from the ground up as RWD (which, as you know, is also much more expensive.)

Your point about more hybrid models is great and I'd love to see them combine plug in, hybrid and ICE for some real performance monsters that also get 35+MPG... but that's a long shot as Lexus lost their flag-bearing position with hybrids several years ago. We need a multi-stage 4cyl hybrid, plug-in, multi-stage V8 hybrid, etc. I don't really care where the power/performance gains come from as long as they materialize.

The next two years will be "make it or break it" for Lexus' "good enough" strategy with dressing up Toyota cars. LC and LS are steps in the right direction - but now its time to fill out the rest of the portfolio from the top-down. Lexus is either about about to step up and join BMW, Mercedes and Audi, or fall backwards into the same ranks as Cadillac, Acura and Infiniti. There's no more in-between - the Germans have completely raised the stakes on what it means to be and build a luxury car.
You see, the difference in our views comes from our prediction on Lexus' future. I'm overall pessimistic with the brand seeing how sloppy Lexus executed the LS launch with three very questionable powertrain options (other aspects are almost perfect). Don't get me wrong, deep in my heart I absolutely would love to see high performance SUVs from Lexus. But it will take time for its corporate culture to catch up with Akio's vision. Getting out of an individual's comfort zone is already hard, combine that with billions at stake, you see how excruciating it must be to steer a mega corporation into another direction. This is especially true with Japanese corporations where changes are almost impossible, very painful indeed.

The problem with TMC is how much they procrastinated on drivetrain development in the past decade. Sure the Dynamic Force is the engineering marvel of 2017, but it will be nothing when other players come up with HCCI ICEs around 2020, and then we'll have to wait another five or so years for TMC's response. Some people say Dynamic Force is a Skyactiv that's five years too late, and I can't disagree. Mazda is leading the charge to HCCI with Skyactiv X, and MB will follow shortly after.

In another post I mentioned that playing catch-up in the hyper-turbo-power-arms-race now is too late and too dear for Lexus. Their best way for breakthrough is utilizing its hybrid prowess and build serious high performance hybrid models. Unfortunately TMC, again, is two or three years behind the industry in battery technology. The 2020 solid state battery may be the turning point, but solid state batteries are not optimized for power density.

I will remain pessimistic until I see solid information on TMC's two most important engines: the 3.0V6 turbo and the 2.0 Dyanamic Force. If we see any GR or AR appear in any new models again, sorry, it's game over for Lexus.
ssun30
You see, the difference in our views comes from our prediction on Lexus' future. I'm overall pessimistic with the brand seeing how sloppy Lexus executed the LS launch with three very questionable powertrain options (other aspects are almost perfect). Don't get me wrong, deep in my heart I absolutely would love to see high performance SUVs from Lexus. But it will take time for its corporate culture to catch up with Akio's vision. Getting out of an individual's comfort zone is already hard, combine that with billions at stake, you see how excruciating it must be to steer a mega corporation into another direction. This is especially true with Japanese corporations where changes are almost impossible, very painful indeed. Nissan has close to zero R&D except the BEV program and leave all the problems to Renault, the result is them leaving Infiniti to lay down and die.

The problem with TMC is how much they procrastinated on drivetrain development in the past decade. Sure the Dynamic Force is the engineering marvel of 2017, but it will be nothing when other players come up with HCCI ICEs around 2020, and then we'll have to wait another five or so years for TMC's response. Some people say Dynamic Force is a Skyactiv that's five years too late, and I can't disagree. Mazda is leading the charge to HCCI with Skyactiv X, and MB will follow shortly after.

In another post I mentioned that playing catch-up in the hyper-turbo-power-arms-race now is too late and too dear for Lexus. Their best way for breakthrough is utilizing its hybrid prowess and build serious high performance hybrid models. Unfortunately TMC, again, is two or three years behind the industry in battery technology because of the billions they spent on the castle in the sky called hydrogen fuel cells. The 2020 solid state battery may be the turning point, but solid state batteries are not optimized for power density.

I will remain pessimistic until I see solid information on TMC's two most important engines: the 3.0V6 turbo and the 2.0 Dynamic Force. If we see any GR or AR appear in any new models again, sorry, it's game over for Lexus.
Great post - I agree with you 100%!

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