Speculating on the New Lexus LF-CC Hybrid Engine


Lexus LF-CC Engine Speculation

One of the more mysterious elements about the Lexus LF-CC is the 2.5L hybrid engine under the hood — the Paris press release reveals little:

[The new engine will be] appropriate to a sporting, D-segment coupe and low CO2 emissions, targeted below 100 g/km. This powertrain will achieve class-leading energy efficiency, with more than 2 hp produced per gram of CO2.

It adopts the Atkinson cycle and D-4S direct injection technology to optimise both the power and fuel-efficiency benefits of Lexus Hybrid Drive

Using these vague facts, My.IS administrator jruhi4 did some calculating (emphasis is mine):

The current port injection-only 2AR-FXE [engine from the ES 300h] is already producing the 200 total system horsepower…with D4-S injection boosting horsepower by just over 10% in the dual-injected 2GR-FSE 3.5-liter V6 versus its port injection-only 2GR-FE sibling, we suspect that total system horsepower for the new 2AR-FXE with D4S 2.5-liter 4-cylinder hybrid engine should be around 220-225 hp, a notion seconded by Lexus Enthusiast commentator MT.

When it was announced in June that a low-displacement hybrid powertrain for the GS would debut in Paris, I had assumed it would be a direct transplant of the 2.5L four-cylinder engine from the ES 300h — by adding D4S technology, this “new” hybrid engine gets a welcome boost that should push it past the 204-horsepower V6 engine in the current IS 250.

(While on the topic, I have to recommend the My.IS analysis of the LF-CC — very insightful.)

Comments


  • BlackDynamiteNY

    Question is:  Will Lexus put 3 engines in the IS, or will it be just the hybrid and 3.5? Smells like that’s where Lexus is going. That would be a mistake.

    Looks like the manual tranny is in a lot of trouble at Lexus…..
    BD

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    I don’t think we’ll see an IS manual, but someone on Facebook made a good point about this LF-CC interior photo:

    http://cdn.thelexusenthusiast.com/images/weblog/12-09-18-lexus-lf-cc-interior.jpg

    Seems like there’s enough room by the accelerator & brake for a third pedal.

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    I need to confirm that the four-cylinder hybrid will be available in North America — if so, it opens up a lot of questions about the IS 250.

    Without an update, what would be the benefits of the 204-hp V6 over a 225-hp four-cylinder with electric torque? Cost?

  • BlackDynamiteNY

    If Lexus never pairs the manual with any engine with power, then they will never sell them, like Infiniti and BMW do.

    It’s a self-fullfilling prophecy……
    BD

  • F1orce

    Get rid of the 2.5L 4GR-FSE and have this one instead for the base..

    And the 3.5L 2GR-FSE can be the top one..

    Or Lexus can make the 2GR-FSE as the base engine (which would be sweet) and the hybrid can be the more expensive model for the hippies..

    One thing for sure, Lexus will get rid of the rubbish 4GR-FSE

  • http://twitter.com/andyelvers Andy Elvers

    This certainly looks more likely for the smaller GSh I agree. I would have thought the GS250 will be quite a short lived car?

  • Thomas

    Why are americans suddenly so hung up on manuals?! And that now that autos are 100% better, faster and stronger than any manual?
    In Europe we used to choose manuals because previous autos sucked. You over there bought those sluggish autos like it didnt matter. I hear a lot of you over there has problems with so called “stick shift”?
    Now autos are a much better choice and we in Europe ofcourse chooses the auto.

    Im hoping Lexus never puts a manual transmission in any of their cars ever again!

  • MT

    The IS will get the 4GR-FSE back and the 2AR-FSE hybrid. In some markets either one of these might not be available. (Something like both engines for the US, hybrid only for Europe, V6 only for the UAE…)

    I doubt that the 2AR-FSE will get into the GS. The GS chief engineer said, that there will be no 4 cylinder GS. A rather stupid thing from my point of view. But maybe he was just putting up a false trail or referred to non hybrid powertrains only.

  • Thomas

    Sweet power-up compared to todays IS 250. Hope they can manage to keep the weight about the same or lower though.

  • LF_EH

    Are automatics as fun to drive as a true manual version?

    Not in my opinion

  • Thomas

    Im from Europe and almost havent driven anything but manuals all my life. It’s nothing special about it at all and not fun compared to a modern automatic transmission.  
    Building cars with manuals is a waste of time.

  • http://twitter.com/andyelvers Andy Elvers

    A GS with the smaller hybrid system from the new IS will almost certainly follow some months later.  Maybe not in the US, but certainly in Europe.  Though I don’t know why, as I suspect there would be US customers for such a model.  The same as I’m sure there are US customers who would love a GS450h F-Sport (my boss in LA for 1!)

  • BlackDynamiteNY

    I feel sorry for you people who can’t appreciate a manual transmission.

    I’ve driven a manual all of my life, and I will ALWAYS have at least one in my stable.

    My views and opinions do not reflect those of the average American, since I an well above average……
    BD

  • Mohammed Taha

    Manuals used to be fun and at times can be fun but the technological advances made in automatics today make manuals a waste of time and money both for the consumer and producer. Sure some manufacturers are still producing cars with manual transmission but that’s only for the US market ’cause for some weird reason Americans feel that a manual car makes you more of a man.

    I love manual but not to the point where I’d demand a car is made manual. I find automatic is more convenient for in-city driving. Hell it’s more convenient for any type of driving. Lol

  • Anthony

    As I remember Krew has told that one of the chief engineers said that there will never be a 4 cyl in a GS …

    Is that right or not?

    Maybe a 4 cyl for an IS but not for a GS.

    Will that mean two new hybrid engines? :-)

    I think a 4 cyl hybrid would be great for CT and IS and maybe for a small Crossover Baby RX.

    And a small 6 cyl hybrid for the GS, RX and LS.

    What about that?

    And it would be typically for Toyota to “recycle” / improve the existing 4 cyl Camry hybrid with an Atkinson cycle …

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    I don’t think anyone’s saying they don’t appreciate manuals, it’s just that the appeal isn’t as strong as it used to be.

    Personally, I find manuals are fun but unnecessary for 95% of driving situations. 

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    It’s true — the GS chief engineer Yoshihiko Kanamori said this in two separate interviews:

    http://lexusenthusiast.com/2012/06/14/more-details-on-the-second-lexus-gs-hybrid/

    http://lexusenthusiast.com/2012/06/19/second-lexus-gs-hybrid-to-use-v6-engine/

    I really don’t know what to make of it, but I have my doubts that the GS will get a separate second hybrid engine. 

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    I believe the only reason the GS 450h F SPORT isn’t available in North America is pricing — for the majority of customers, adding the F SPORT & hybrid together just bumps up the cost too much.

    Just a hunch.

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    I don’t know what to make of Kanamori-san’s comments about a four-cylinder GS — maybe he was speaking specifically of a non-hybrid four-cylinder?

    Definitely a mystery, as this new 2AR-FSE hybrid powertrain could be a huge winner in Europe.

  • BlackDynamiteNY

    I think BMW is making BANK with the 4-banging 525i.  

    If you have a strong enough four, WHICH LEXUS DOESN NOT, then the number of cylinders isn’t really a problem, unless you make it one in the sales process.

    Offering a GOOD four would help GS sales…..
    BD

  • Tiel_mic

    The 4 cylinder hybrid would instantly be the most popular GS engine in Europe. There is even a 4 cylinder S-class and A8. I don’t know why Kanamori doesnt like a i4 GS.

  • Annoinashell2000

    man only 225hp? damn i would be really disappointed if it was only that. But if Lexus can tune that engine like the BMWs then SHAZAM

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    Well, it’s important to note that this will be one of many engine options — there will certainly be V6 models to choose if you’re looking for more power.

  • http://lexusenthusiast.com krew

    Equipping the IS & GS with this four-cylinder hybrid would put Lexus on the right path in Europe — it’s not the ultimate solution, but it would go a long way.

  • Mohammed Taha

    Agreed eleventy million percent :-)

  • Anthony

    But nobody orders this crap … most of S Classes and A8s in Europe are sold as big gasoline only engines or diesel …
    nobody cares about hybrid S Class or A8 – as LS 600h … :-/

    But I think a great fuel saving 4 cyl hybrid for the GS could be a good opportunity for BMW, Audi or MB Diesel clients to switch to Lexus.

  • Anthony

    To get a stand in the worlds premium luxury car class Lexus needs in every line a top setting F model – IS F, GS F, LS F, …

  • MT

    Most A8 i know of are V6 diesel. Most S-classes I see are S350 CDI. Almost no V8 gasoline!